While I always sympathize with a call to treat people as people, aren't you ignoring a real problem by focusing on the way The Age happened to frame it? Are you claiming that enrollments in specialist maths are actually holding steady? Or that it is okay if they drop?
Anecdotally (listening to my older kids), I suspect many children who avoid maths don't realise they could be learning new ways of thinking, or believe incorrectly they are just "bad at maths". This seems bad to me.
And while industry is not the only concern, it is *a* concern. I wish there was more appreciation of maths in my own field (software engineering). I suspect the world would be a slightly better place if more of my peers had done more maths.
Thanks for your thoughts! What do you see as the real problem here?
I'm not claiming that enrollments are holding steady and not necessarily saying that it is okay if they drop, but it could be. There are many ideologies influencing why students might choose/not choose high level mathematics and also how this subject is taught. For example, because of the competitive nature of the final year of schooling I would suggest that high level mathematics courses have been made too incredibly dense (in order to create a bell curve), leaving little wiggle room for deep investigation and application (not to mention providing opportunities for "poor" maths students to do the subject). I would suggest this is part of the problem that you're mentioning in your second point.
I am not a teacher, so I have a very limited perspective here, but I hear that we focus on measuring and ranking our students and our teachers, almost to the exclusion of any other goal. It seems crazy: a student's rank will be relevant for barely a year, but their school experience will shape them forever.
If that is why students are forsaking higher level mathematics, it's a sad own goal. :(
I do think mathematical understanding makes the world a better place. In programming, we are swamped in a sea of details. The default human approach is to grapple each detail as it comes up, never quite understanding the overall picture. Maths can help us build little conceptual models for different purposes.
I think that's true more broadly as we live our day to day lives, whether it's putting news in perspective, managing time/money, etc. ... although of course many other skills are needed too!
Thanks again Sam, your sentiments regarding the focus on measurement and ranking are being acknowledged by a growing number around the country. I recently wrote about the way that the ATAR in many ways goes against our goals and aims of education here: https://theinterruption.substack.com/p/atar-ideology-5fd?r=1ky3yr
As you have shared, I do feel that Mathematics is quite a special thing. I like to see it as a way of seeing and understanding the world, and I do hope that in some small way I can help to foster that where I can.
Keep encouraging others to engage with mathematics in the way you see it! It certainly has been encouraging to me to hear your thoughts.
We need to continue to talk about this, ask questions of one another and grapple with what it is we're really trying to do here. As with most, I don't believe we will ever be satisfied with education that has at its focus measurement and ranking.
While I always sympathize with a call to treat people as people, aren't you ignoring a real problem by focusing on the way The Age happened to frame it? Are you claiming that enrollments in specialist maths are actually holding steady? Or that it is okay if they drop?
Anecdotally (listening to my older kids), I suspect many children who avoid maths don't realise they could be learning new ways of thinking, or believe incorrectly they are just "bad at maths". This seems bad to me.
And while industry is not the only concern, it is *a* concern. I wish there was more appreciation of maths in my own field (software engineering). I suspect the world would be a slightly better place if more of my peers had done more maths.
Hi Sam,
Thanks for your thoughts! What do you see as the real problem here?
I'm not claiming that enrollments are holding steady and not necessarily saying that it is okay if they drop, but it could be. There are many ideologies influencing why students might choose/not choose high level mathematics and also how this subject is taught. For example, because of the competitive nature of the final year of schooling I would suggest that high level mathematics courses have been made too incredibly dense (in order to create a bell curve), leaving little wiggle room for deep investigation and application (not to mention providing opportunities for "poor" maths students to do the subject). I would suggest this is part of the problem that you're mentioning in your second point.
I feel as though we often feel that more maths equals a better world, but I am not so sure that is the case (I wrote a post about that here https://open.substack.com/pub/theinterruption/p/fostering-ethical-understanding-in?r=1ky3yr&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false)
Appreciate you taking the time to respond so thoughtfully Sam!
I am not a teacher, so I have a very limited perspective here, but I hear that we focus on measuring and ranking our students and our teachers, almost to the exclusion of any other goal. It seems crazy: a student's rank will be relevant for barely a year, but their school experience will shape them forever.
If that is why students are forsaking higher level mathematics, it's a sad own goal. :(
I do think mathematical understanding makes the world a better place. In programming, we are swamped in a sea of details. The default human approach is to grapple each detail as it comes up, never quite understanding the overall picture. Maths can help us build little conceptual models for different purposes.
I think that's true more broadly as we live our day to day lives, whether it's putting news in perspective, managing time/money, etc. ... although of course many other skills are needed too!
Thanks again Sam, your sentiments regarding the focus on measurement and ranking are being acknowledged by a growing number around the country. I recently wrote about the way that the ATAR in many ways goes against our goals and aims of education here: https://theinterruption.substack.com/p/atar-ideology-5fd?r=1ky3yr
As you have shared, I do feel that Mathematics is quite a special thing. I like to see it as a way of seeing and understanding the world, and I do hope that in some small way I can help to foster that where I can.
Keep encouraging others to engage with mathematics in the way you see it! It certainly has been encouraging to me to hear your thoughts.
We need to continue to talk about this, ask questions of one another and grapple with what it is we're really trying to do here. As with most, I don't believe we will ever be satisfied with education that has at its focus measurement and ranking.
Take care!
Likewise, and good luck!