Thank you so much for this post. Honestly, it's been a topic I've been concerned about for some time now, and this was deeply satisfying to read. It is balanced and fair-minded, but also offers a more ambitious vision for the role of the teacher. I felt it would take some bravery to go near this topic online, as you say, they are a 'passionate' lot. It is a much needed perspective. I hope many people read this!!! :)
Thank you for sharing Mel and for the kind words. I'm glad to hear that you can see that I have tried to articulate myself in such a way to engage dialogue. This is my hope, although I appreciate that it will not always come across that way to some. Thank you for taking the time to read and comment, it is glad to know that it has resonated with you.
Tom, is there a way I can contact you via email? Mine is ralphmelanie@gmail.com if you don't want to share yours publicly. I would like to ask you something if that's ok.
Education should be for the benefit and betterment of entire communities, even the entire nation and not reduced to individual merit, streamlined economics and latest fads.
Thanks for reading Jennifer, appreciate your reflection here! Notice how this is an ideological position in itself too, involving a certain perspective of what education ought to bring about. It’s important to know that there are alternatives to dominant ways of thinking that result in a specific “common sense”.
The alternative ways of thinking in regard to teaching and learning are everywhere, ambiguous, at times contradictory, divisive and all proposing to be true. Apart from the stationary Australian Professional Standards for Teachers I think its a very confusing world for the beginning teacher to sort out.
I agree with you there! I think your thoughts are very reminiscent of William Perry's description of intellectual development (dualism to multiplicity then to commitment). A process that I believe all teachers have to work through, teaching being an intellectual profession.
“By framing the teacher as a skilled technician whose core aim is support student learning, important educational questions, such as the ethical application of such learning, can become sidelined in the pursuit of efficiency (Kostogriz, 2019).”
Thanks for reading Jason! Hope things are going well where you are 🙂.
Yes, I think that statement provides the foundation for my concerns regarding the movement. There is a whole lot of stuff that education can be used for that although might not be efficient or effective, are still valuable. Important to keep our minds open to where this could come into our practice!
May 15, 2023·edited May 15, 2023Liked by Tom Mahoney
It is hard not believe that there are go-to phrases 'to fix education' like the current 'science of learning' and how it is used in the politics of learning and education and touted as 'evidence-based' and a 'cure-all' for endemic issues surrounding a broken system in Australian education with no 'silver bullet solutions'. The decline has happened over decades and it will probably take decades to fix. We are now at a tipping point that if policymakers do not start listening to education policy advisors such as Pasi Sahlberg, Chris Bonner and Tom Greenwell and quickly that a downward trend in students lacking sufficient numeracy and literacy skills will continue to haunt us. There is also a very concerning rate of mental health issues amongst students from 4 to 17 that urgently needs support and policy direction.
Thanks for the comment Jennifer, you raise some good points here. Those who commit to the science of learning tend to claim that it is not an ideological movement, yet seek to impose mandated standards of teaching practice through policy (which we're currently seeing in the US). It may make a difference, but as you say there are more issues than one's ability to read at an arbitrary reading standard that are still worth our consideration. I guess time will tell whether the Australian government will take a risk with the ideas put forward by Sahlberg, Bonner and Greenwell...
Apr 15, 2023·edited Apr 15, 2023Liked by Tom Mahoney
Evidence-based proponents seem to forget about the messy spectrum of benefits that schools and dedicated teachers provide. That is all much harder to measure than fluency rates or correct answers on a maths assessment. The evidence on learning is based on only a fraction of what education is. But so many consumers of literature promoting evidence-based practice don’t don’t realise or consider this, which leads them to the conclusion that teachers must be idealistic and incompetent to not just do what this particular research recommends. Anyone who works constructively with children or humans in general must understand that a strict repertoire of strategies will never create the relationships between teachers and students that turn students into engaged learners and citizens. That takes compassion and creativity, which are as much a part of education as effective strategies. There is almost no element of education that isn't, as is evidence-based practice, necessary but not sufficient.
Tom, thank you so much for the sanity your work has brought me over many years. The perspectives you offer have given me resilience, working in a system that can be quite disappointing at times.
Hi Cybele, thank you for taking the time to comment on this one and share your reflections. As you say, there are often moments within teaching that require one to break the "rules" of effectiveness to allow for relationships to develop. That is important if we see education as founded on interactions between individual people, not simply interactions with knowledge, skills or objects. This may require us to, at times, go against the "evidence" to achieve what might be the most desirable outcome in our work.
Thank you for your kind words also, it feels humbling to hear that my work has given you strength in a profession that so easily disregards the faithfulness of its teachers and rather makes judgement of quality on very narrow measures of success. It is comments like these that encourage me to continue!
No. Education should not try to indoctrinate students with what the educators think is good for the world. Because that changes. What would have been good in 1930s Germany or China under Mao would no longer be seen to be "good". So to avoid that, the idea of trying to change the morals of children to align with the political ideals of certain teachers should be avoided.
Hi N. Telling, thank you for taking the time to read through this post and engage with it. I understand that we may have to "agree to disagree" as it were, but I'm not sure how you have been able to infer that I am suggesting that as teachers we are to "change the morals of children to align with the political ideas of certain teachers"? I state that teachers ought to engage "students in the difficult work of envisaging a better world". I have not defined what this "better world" is, nor claim that there is one perspective. Teacher judgment does not discount the freedom of students to make their own judgments about their world.
Biesta (2021) argues that currently it seems that another kind of indoctrination exists in the way that schooling is currently envisioned. He states that:
'A huge part of educational research and policy nowadays is aimed at reducing this risk [that the efforts of teachers can never guarantee some outcome due to student freedom], and at one level this is entirely justified, because getting it right matters. But there is a tipping point in the ambition to reduce this particular risk. This is the point where education becomes nothing but perfect reproduction; the point where education turns into indoctrination; the point where there is no longer an opportunity for the student to exist as subject, because they have been entirely objectified' (Biesta, 2021, p. 55).
This is where I'm coming from, which is interested in preserving the freedom of students, but also of teachers.
Reference
Biesta, G. (2021). World-Centred Education : A View for the Present. Taylor & Francis Group.
Thank you so much for this post. Honestly, it's been a topic I've been concerned about for some time now, and this was deeply satisfying to read. It is balanced and fair-minded, but also offers a more ambitious vision for the role of the teacher. I felt it would take some bravery to go near this topic online, as you say, they are a 'passionate' lot. It is a much needed perspective. I hope many people read this!!! :)
Thank you for sharing Mel and for the kind words. I'm glad to hear that you can see that I have tried to articulate myself in such a way to engage dialogue. This is my hope, although I appreciate that it will not always come across that way to some. Thank you for taking the time to read and comment, it is glad to know that it has resonated with you.
Tom, is there a way I can contact you via email? Mine is ralphmelanie@gmail.com if you don't want to share yours publicly. I would like to ask you something if that's ok.
I’m waiting for a ‘science of including all students - too hard and unimportant perhaps?
The “science of inclusion” actually has a nice ring to it, I’ll give that one to you for free 😜
Ooo, yes please! How about the science of making actual inclusion happen in every classroom?
Education should be for the benefit and betterment of entire communities, even the entire nation and not reduced to individual merit, streamlined economics and latest fads.
Thanks for reading Jennifer, appreciate your reflection here! Notice how this is an ideological position in itself too, involving a certain perspective of what education ought to bring about. It’s important to know that there are alternatives to dominant ways of thinking that result in a specific “common sense”.
The alternative ways of thinking in regard to teaching and learning are everywhere, ambiguous, at times contradictory, divisive and all proposing to be true. Apart from the stationary Australian Professional Standards for Teachers I think its a very confusing world for the beginning teacher to sort out.
I agree with you there! I think your thoughts are very reminiscent of William Perry's description of intellectual development (dualism to multiplicity then to commitment). A process that I believe all teachers have to work through, teaching being an intellectual profession.
Love this post! This comment resonated,
“By framing the teacher as a skilled technician whose core aim is support student learning, important educational questions, such as the ethical application of such learning, can become sidelined in the pursuit of efficiency (Kostogriz, 2019).”
Thanks for reading Jason! Hope things are going well where you are 🙂.
Yes, I think that statement provides the foundation for my concerns regarding the movement. There is a whole lot of stuff that education can be used for that although might not be efficient or effective, are still valuable. Important to keep our minds open to where this could come into our practice!
It is hard not believe that there are go-to phrases 'to fix education' like the current 'science of learning' and how it is used in the politics of learning and education and touted as 'evidence-based' and a 'cure-all' for endemic issues surrounding a broken system in Australian education with no 'silver bullet solutions'. The decline has happened over decades and it will probably take decades to fix. We are now at a tipping point that if policymakers do not start listening to education policy advisors such as Pasi Sahlberg, Chris Bonner and Tom Greenwell and quickly that a downward trend in students lacking sufficient numeracy and literacy skills will continue to haunt us. There is also a very concerning rate of mental health issues amongst students from 4 to 17 that urgently needs support and policy direction.
Thanks for the comment Jennifer, you raise some good points here. Those who commit to the science of learning tend to claim that it is not an ideological movement, yet seek to impose mandated standards of teaching practice through policy (which we're currently seeing in the US). It may make a difference, but as you say there are more issues than one's ability to read at an arbitrary reading standard that are still worth our consideration. I guess time will tell whether the Australian government will take a risk with the ideas put forward by Sahlberg, Bonner and Greenwell...
And isn’t achieving the most desirable outcome the very definition of ‘best practice’?
Evidence-based proponents seem to forget about the messy spectrum of benefits that schools and dedicated teachers provide. That is all much harder to measure than fluency rates or correct answers on a maths assessment. The evidence on learning is based on only a fraction of what education is. But so many consumers of literature promoting evidence-based practice don’t don’t realise or consider this, which leads them to the conclusion that teachers must be idealistic and incompetent to not just do what this particular research recommends. Anyone who works constructively with children or humans in general must understand that a strict repertoire of strategies will never create the relationships between teachers and students that turn students into engaged learners and citizens. That takes compassion and creativity, which are as much a part of education as effective strategies. There is almost no element of education that isn't, as is evidence-based practice, necessary but not sufficient.
Tom, thank you so much for the sanity your work has brought me over many years. The perspectives you offer have given me resilience, working in a system that can be quite disappointing at times.
Hi Cybele, thank you for taking the time to comment on this one and share your reflections. As you say, there are often moments within teaching that require one to break the "rules" of effectiveness to allow for relationships to develop. That is important if we see education as founded on interactions between individual people, not simply interactions with knowledge, skills or objects. This may require us to, at times, go against the "evidence" to achieve what might be the most desirable outcome in our work.
Thank you for your kind words also, it feels humbling to hear that my work has given you strength in a profession that so easily disregards the faithfulness of its teachers and rather makes judgement of quality on very narrow measures of success. It is comments like these that encourage me to continue!
No. Education should not try to indoctrinate students with what the educators think is good for the world. Because that changes. What would have been good in 1930s Germany or China under Mao would no longer be seen to be "good". So to avoid that, the idea of trying to change the morals of children to align with the political ideals of certain teachers should be avoided.
Hi N. Telling, thank you for taking the time to read through this post and engage with it. I understand that we may have to "agree to disagree" as it were, but I'm not sure how you have been able to infer that I am suggesting that as teachers we are to "change the morals of children to align with the political ideas of certain teachers"? I state that teachers ought to engage "students in the difficult work of envisaging a better world". I have not defined what this "better world" is, nor claim that there is one perspective. Teacher judgment does not discount the freedom of students to make their own judgments about their world.
Biesta (2021) argues that currently it seems that another kind of indoctrination exists in the way that schooling is currently envisioned. He states that:
'A huge part of educational research and policy nowadays is aimed at reducing this risk [that the efforts of teachers can never guarantee some outcome due to student freedom], and at one level this is entirely justified, because getting it right matters. But there is a tipping point in the ambition to reduce this particular risk. This is the point where education becomes nothing but perfect reproduction; the point where education turns into indoctrination; the point where there is no longer an opportunity for the student to exist as subject, because they have been entirely objectified' (Biesta, 2021, p. 55).
This is where I'm coming from, which is interested in preserving the freedom of students, but also of teachers.
Reference
Biesta, G. (2021). World-Centred Education : A View for the Present. Taylor & Francis Group.